老k教练詹姆斯「键盘侠老詹和KD21岁就均分30|见证二人生涯是球迷之幸」

LeBron and KD were averaging over 30 at the age of 21.

詹姆斯和杜兰特在21岁的年纪场均得分就超过30了。

LeBron in 05/06 averaging 31.1 and Durant averaging 30.1 (60TS%). In their 3rd season were already big time bucket-getters. It's crazy to think about. Jason Tatum is 21, Donovan Mitchell 22, D.Booker 22. Still haven't sniffed 30ppg. Booker seems the most likely to do this but this is a discussion for another day. But damn KD and Bron...

05/06赛季，詹姆斯场均得分31.1；09/10赛季，杜兰特场均得分30.1（真实命中率60%）。他俩在进入NBA的第三个赛季就已经是顶尖得分手了。看看21岁的塔图姆、22岁的米切尔和22岁的布克就知道詹姆斯和杜兰特有多厉害了，这些年轻人现在连场均30的影子都看不到。似乎布克是最有希望做到的，不过这改天再论。可是詹姆斯和杜兰特……

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[–]Pistons willi3blaz3 2081 points 13 hours ago

They’re both freaks of nature. Both unique and one off editions

活塞球迷：这俩就是怪物。他俩都是独一无二且难得一见的。

[–]Supersonics kenjirouen 768 points 12 hours ago

At this point we might as well assume we’ll never see players with their exact gifts or better for a long long time.

These dudes were averaging 25 on elite efficiency in their sophomore seasons

超音速球迷：现在我们也许可以说，我们在今后很长很长一段时期内都不会看到他俩这种天赋的球员了。

詹姆斯和杜兰特在进入联盟的第二年就已经可以场均25 了，而且效率极高。

[–]Pistons sampson40 67 points 12 hours ago

And they were efficient in an era when people paid way less attention to efficiency. In the 2004-2005 season, 5 of the top 10 scorers shot 43% from the field or worse.

活塞球迷：即便是在那些没那么注重效率的年代，他们也是高效的。04/05赛季，前十的得分手里有五人的命中率在43%以下。

[–]76ers habdragon08 45 points 12 hours ago

And Steph was still in college at 21. Didn't hit 20 PPG until he was 24. People develop at different rates.

76人球迷：库里21岁的时候还在大学呢。他在24岁的年纪才实现均分20。这些球员的成长速率都不一样啊。

[–]Alexandrinho0000 23 points 10 hours ago

Didnt Doncic had stats like lebron and KD in his Rookie year? Maybe he doenst do 30 pppg in his 3rd year, but if he does 21 in his first its not to far fetched that he can come close.

东契奇处子赛季的数据不是与詹姆斯、杜兰特很接近吗？或许他到了第三个赛季也没法场均30 ，可既然他在处子赛季就能均分21，那他以后接近老詹和阿杜也是有希望的。

[–]Nets notmortalvinbat 40 points 8 hours ago

in year 2 LeBron immediately turned into the 27-7-7 monster that would destroy the league for years to come, a monumental leap that might not be fair to expect from Luka but certainly possible.

篮网球迷：詹姆斯进入联盟的第二个赛季就立马把数据提升到了的27 7 7，这是可以接连几年制霸联盟的怪兽数据啊，你指望东契奇实现这种质的飞跃或许是不合理的，不过肯定是有可能的。

[–]Mamba SaidKnockYouOut 86 points 11 hours ago

KD averaged 28/8/4 on 50/40/90 when he was 24. Not quite as impressive given that he was entering his prime by then, but still crazy that he was that efficient on such a high volume of shots by his 6th season.

And the wild part is I said KD was "entering his prime" at 24, but he had already lead the league in scoring 3 times by that point. Aside from his rookie year, KD has never had a season in which he didn't average at least 25 a game (that stat also applies to Lebron, who now has 15 straight seasons of averaging 25 ). His consistency and longevity are legendary at this point

杜兰特24岁的时候场均就28 8 4，三项命中率分别为50%、40%、90%。考虑到他当时正步入个人巅峰期，这数据虽说没那么耀眼吧，可是他在第六个NBA赛季出手次数那么多的基础上，居然还能那么高效，这就很厉害了。

诡异的是，我说杜兰特24岁“步入巅峰”，可是他当时已经三次问鼎得分王了。除了处子赛季，阿杜的场均得分就没跌破过25（这也适用于詹姆斯，他已经连续15个赛季均分25 了）.阿杜的稳定性和持续性称得上传奇。

[–]Mamba SaidKnockYouOut 22 points 11 hours ago

Its a shame he missed so much of that 14-15 season with his injury. I honestly think if he had stayed injury free or gone anywhere but Golden State he would be in the top 20 on the All-Time Scoring list. He really had a shot at passing Kareem. I think he still does now, but it will be tough.

很可惜阿杜在14/15赛季因伤错过太多比赛了。我真的觉得，如果他没那会儿没受伤，或者说他去了勇士之外的地方，那他应该能进历史总得分榜前20.他当时真的有机会超越贾巴尔。我觉得他现在还有机会，不过有点难。

[–]Bucks RenDabs 19 points 10 hours ago

I still think that, barring injury, he'll get to at least 30k points which isn't too shabby. Depends on how much he wants to push himself later in his career, I could also see him being the kind of guy to retire with some left in the tank.

雄鹿球迷：我还是这么想的，以后没伤的话，他的总得分至少能冲进30000 ，这不是很不合理吧。这就看他在职业生涯末期的欲望有多强了，而且我觉得他是那种会在还能打的时候退役的人。

[–]Supersonics kenjirouen 372 points 11 hours ago

It feels like they’ve been doing this nonsense since forever, is this what people felt like watching the Jordan, Barkley, Magic, Bird, Hakeem era ?

10 years of greatness damn.

超音速球迷：感觉詹姆斯和阿杜进入联盟之后一直都是这种变态表现，大家以前看乔丹、巴克利、魔术师、伯德和奥拉朱旺打球的时候也是这种感觉吗？十多年如一日的伟大啊，靠。

[–]Thunder IWillKarateKickYou 50 points 10 hours ago

Jordan/Kobe/Shaq...yes. It felt even more amazing sometimes but it could have just been my age. Maybe a few more players that I didnt get a chance to watch much. I would add Iverson to the list of almost a Harden type player but more fun to watch lol

雷霆球迷：乔丹、科比、奥尼尔……没错。有时还觉得当年这些人更神奇，不过或许是因为我的年龄在这吧。或许还有几个球员的比赛我看得不多。至于说那些几乎和哈登一个类型的球员名单里，我还想加上艾弗森，不过他更具观赏性，哈哈哈

[–]Dazegobye 52 points 10 hours ago

Iverson was much watch tv. Everyone knew he would get 30 but it was amazing watching it happen still somehow with him being so small and no help around him

艾弗森的比赛就看得多了。当时大家都知道他会得30分，可是看到这成为现实还是很奇妙的，毕竟他个子这么小，而且身边也没有帮手。

[–]Magic VictorOladeepthroat 18 points 10 hours ago

Well him getting 30 was cause he had no help lol. When players get help they usually drop in scoring

魔术球迷：这么说吧，他得30分就是因为没有帮手，哈哈。一般球星要是有帮手的话，得分就会下降。

[–]robertgentel 178 points 11 hours ago

Hakeem was only viewed as the best player in the league for a few years. It definitely was not a long span (in public mindshare).

奥拉朱旺被大家视作是联盟最佳球员也就那么几年吧。肯定不是很长一个时期（大众看法）。

[–][LAL] Magic Johnson ArgentEtoile 59 points 9 hours ago

I mean, Hakeem was 2nd team All-NBA his 2nd year in the league, and 1st team his 3rd, 4th, and 5th years. I’d say that’s a pretty prominent start to his career

湖人球迷：我觉得呢，奥拉朱旺进入联盟第二年就入选了最佳阵容二队，第三年、第四年、第五年都是最佳阵容一队。我觉得这个生涯开局还是相当突出的。

[–]robertgentel 19 points 9 hours ago

Sure, I have him rated as pretty much the best center of all time personally now, but I didn't then. I'm not sure if you were watching the NBA at the time but he was definitely underrated among the public before his championship seasons in my opinion.

肯定的，我个人现在觉得他基本就算是联盟史上最佳中锋了。我不知道你们有没有看当年的比赛，不过在他夺得冠军之前，他肯定是被外界低估了的。

[–]Heat SexyTimeDoe 120 points 11 hours ago

I've always said that Lebron's the far better pure athlete, but KDs physique might be even more unfair for a basketball player

热火球迷：我一直都觉得，就纯运动属性而来，詹姆斯比杜兰特强太多，可是对于一个篮球运动员来说，杜兰特这体格更加不合理啊。

[–]Timberwolves VitaBrevis- 68 points 11 hours ago

KD's ability to handle and score like a 6 foot guard is what sets him apart from everybody, almost ever. the fact that he can have such a quick and smooth shot at his height, with his wingspan, is ridiculous

森林狼球迷：杜兰特那种像一个6尺后卫一样控球和得分的能力是他与众不同之处，几乎历史罕见。他那么高还能有那么快那么柔和的投射能力，并且还有那种臂展，这太扯了。

[–]Lakers Desarticulation 96 points 11 hours ago

The thing with KD is that you could shrink him by 9 inches and he'd be an all star PG.

湖人球迷：KD的厉害之处在于，即便你让他再矮个9英寸，他能成为一名全明星控卫。

[–]Spurs richard_nixons_toe 34 points 11 hours ago

Same for LeBron

马刺球迷：詹姆斯也一样啊。

[–]Warriors falloutranger 46 points 11 hours ago

Lebron's game relies heavily on physicality, and that won't fly if he's 5'11"

勇士球迷：詹姆斯的比赛风格很大程度上依赖于他的身体，要是他只有5尺11的话，那就没那么好使了。

[–]EastSide221 128 points 11 hours ago

And KD heavily relies on being able to shoot over everyone. LeBron at least has all-time level vision.

那KD也在很大程度上依赖于他的出手点高啊。至少詹姆斯的视野是历史顶级的吧。

[–][BKN] Markel Brown laboratory_koala 24 points 10 hours ago

I mean we already have short LeBron in the league, Bledsoe, who is still a solid starter. And I'd argue his pure skill level is actually lower than LeBron as well, at least as a passer.

篮网球迷：这么说吧，联盟里已经有小号詹姆斯了，布莱德索，他现在还是一个很稳的首发。我觉得就纯技术层面来说，他其实是不如詹姆斯的，至少传球比不上。

[–]young_whipsnap 29 points 10 hours ago

Shrinking KD is almost Damian Lillard.

缩水的杜兰特就成利拉德咯。

[–][CLE] LeBron James badsshubham 233 points 12 hours ago

Bron and KD are generational talents. KD was like 23 in 2012 finals,Lebron was 22 in 2007 finals. KD was already 3 time scoring champion by the age of 23 .

骑士球迷：詹姆斯和阿杜都是一代人才出一个的天才。杜兰特好像在23岁的时候打进了2012年总决赛，詹姆斯进07年总决赛的时候是22岁。杜兰特在23岁的时候已经连拿三个得分王了。

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[–]Miyagisans 442 points 12 hours ago

Lebron at 18, in a span of a few months, went from playing high school level players to grown men in the NBA and didn't skip a beat.

18岁的詹姆斯，在短短几个月的时间内，从高中进入了NBA的成人世界，完全没慌。

[–][TOR] Jorge Garbajosa Akumetsu33 275 points 11 hours ago

Don't forget all the tremendous pressure from being highly hyped and all the constant negative media attention on him, he still didn't even skip a beat. IMO, Lebron's mental toughness is vastly underestimated, not many players can go through starting at a very young age, what he went through and not crack or wither away from all the herculean expectations.

Lebron is really an once-in-a-generation monster, both physically and mentally.

猛龙球迷：别忘了，当年人们对他各种吹捧，媒体还老是盯着他不放，可是在这些巨大的压力之下他依然处变不惊。我觉得人们大大低估了詹姆斯的意志承受力。在那么小的年纪就要经历那些，而且还能不被外界巨大的期望所压垮，这没几个人做得到。

不管是身体上还是意志上，詹姆斯真的是一代人才有一个的怪物。

[–]Trail Blazers kesht17 149 points 11 hours ago

Exactly. He has been touted as a possible all time great since he was 17, and he has truly delivered while being a great guy off the court. Whatever issues he’s had, they’ve been minor things. Really a testament to his work ethic and character

开拓者球迷：没错。从他17岁起，外界就一直吹捧说他有望成为史上最佳，他还真对得起这份厚爱，而且场外也是个很伟大的人。

不管他有啥问题，那都是小事。他的职业素养和品性真没话说。

[–]Newphoneneednsfw 53 points 9 hours ago

Honestly people underestimate how rare that is, all the hype surrounding him as one of the best possible of all time and he delivered think how many busts there are in the draft, how many times injuries set back careers and how many people cannot handle the pressure.

LeBron from the start was told he was chasing the best and the very fact that he's in the conversation for the best even if it's just as a comparison for who comes close to Jordan is insane.

讲真，大家都没意识到詹姆斯的难得，外界一直吹捧他能成为历史顶尖，他还真做到了，你想想有多少新秀最后成了水货，有多少新秀因为伤病而黯淡，有多少球员没法应对那些压力。

[–]cdbrowns 244 points 14 hours ago

People forget how good Bron was when he was early 20s, he was also a chase down master and a monster defender. Unreal two way player with a ridiculous fast break ability.

人们都忘了20出头的詹姆斯有多强，他当年的追防很猛的，防守端也是个怪物。他的快攻能力很变态，完全就是个让人不敢相信的攻防一体球员。

[–]Raptors username_404_ 96 points 13 hours ago

Legit was the strongest AND fastest wing player in the NBA at the time. Shit was wild

猛龙球迷：当时他真的是联盟史上最壮最快的侧翼。太狂野了。

[–][BKN] Jarrett Allen Batman_in_hiding 449 points 13 hours ago

We take this for granted but Lebron and KD are two of the best scorers of all time. It may be years if not decades before we see another player on their level.

篮网球迷：我们都把詹姆斯和杜兰特的优秀当做理所当然了，他俩是史上顶级的得分手啊。以后再看到这种级别的球员，不说等个几十年吧，至少也有好多年。

[–][ATL] Joe Johnson sire59damos 69 points 14 hours ago

I’m glad that I’ve been able to follow most of their careers

老鹰球迷：很高兴能够追随他俩大部分的职业生涯。

[–]Raptors jyeatbvg 20 points 10 hours ago

I hate when people use the term "generational talent" so loosely. But goddamn are we blessed to have witnessed two over the last 15 years.

猛龙球迷：我不喜欢大家用“一代人出一个的天才”来形容他俩，这太敷衍了。可是，过往15年，能够见证他俩的伟大是我们的荣幸啊。

[–]Rockets MakGalis 81 points 13 hours ago

And then we have another all time great scorer in Harden aswell. Crazy how stacked the league is at the moment

火箭球迷：然后我们也有了哈登这样的历史顶级得分手。联盟真是人才济济啊，太疯狂了。

[–]Lakers lakers2021champs 150 points 13 hours ago

And that’s without even mentioning the greatest shooter of all time

湖人球迷：就这还没提史上最强得分手呢。

[–]Warriors DeadZombie9 67 points 12 hours ago

Fred VanVleet?

勇士球迷：范弗里特？？

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[–][CHO] Kemba Walker BizGilwalker 596 points 13 hours ago

KD may very well be the best all-around volume scorer the league has ever seen. LeBron is a machine who is a top 2 player ever. They were both averaging 25 as second year players.

I think it's disingenuous to compare Booker, Mitchell, and especially Tatum to them. If you think they're ever going to approach 30 ppg (which I don't) compare to Melo, Wade, Harden, or Westbrook. Even those are very lofty targets.

I don't understand why Tatum is in here though. He averages 15 ppg and doesn't give me superstar vibes at all.

黄蜂球迷：杜兰特很可能是史上最全面的得分手。詹姆斯是个机器，历史前二。他们都在进入联盟的第二个赛季就均分25 。

要是拿布克、米切尔，尤其是塔图姆来和他俩比，那就不厚道了。如果你觉得这些年轻人的均分能接近30（我觉得做不到），那就先和甜瓜、韦德、哈登或者威少比比。即便是这些人，对于布克他们来说也是难以企及的。

不过我不懂为啥塔图姆会被提及，他场均才15分啊，一点超巨的影子都没。

[–]Suns benderGOAT 26 points 10 hours ago

Melo at 21- 26.5 D Book at 21- 24.9 Mitchell at 21- 20.5 Westbook at 21- 16.1 Harden at 21- 12.2 Wade at 21- in college.

太阳球迷：场均得分情况：甜瓜21岁26.5、布克21岁24.9、米切尔21岁20.5、威少21岁16.1、哈登21岁12.2，21岁的韦德还在大学。

[–]Lakers caughtinthought 177 points 13 hours ago

It's weird how people seem to unanimously think KD is the best all-around scorer when his career PPG/EFG is identical to Bron

湖人球迷：怎么大家好像都一致认为杜兰特是最全面的得分手呢，真是奇了怪了，明明他的均分、有效命中率和詹姆斯一样啊。

[–]humpty_dumptyyy[S] 109 points 13 hours ago

The thing is KD will give you a bucket anyway he likes.

关键在于杜兰特可以以任何他想要的方式得分啊

[–]Pistons YelIowmamba 42 points 12 hours ago

Yeah but the stats still say that Lebron and KD are similar scorers. If KD could score a bucket anyway he likes, he should average more points than LeBron, but he doesn't... so KD and Lebron will give you bucket in similar manners.

活塞球迷：是，然而数据显示，詹姆斯和杜兰特还是很类似的得分手啊。如果阿杜可以随意取分，那他的均分应该比詹姆斯高吧，但是并没有……所以詹姆斯和杜兰特的得分方式是相似的。

[–]Supersonics memeticengineering 88 points 12 hours ago

Don't we usually use TS% (where LeBron's only had 4/14 seasons better than KD's career average .613%) when talking shooting efficiency because it includes free throws too?

KD hasn't had a TS% south of .630% since he turned 24, and has 4 scoring titles to LeBron's 1. He's a more efficient scorer.

超音速球迷：咱们在谈论投篮效率的时候，不是一般要用真实命中率嘛？因为这是包含罚球的啊

[–]misterwhoami 381 points 13 hours ago

I think that has to do with how Durant doesn't have any glaring weaknesses. whereas Lebron isn't as great from the FT line and shooting 3s.

我觉得大家公认杜兰特为最全面得分手与他自己没有特别明显的短板有关。而詹姆斯的罚球和三分就没那么好了。

[–]lillithfair98 30 points 11 hours ago

Yea, but LeBron gets more shots attempts within 0-3 feet and finishes at a higher efficiency than KD. They have different strengths, but I think the point is a good one that LeBron scores just as well as KD — he just isn’t considered as great a scorer because, frankly, he doesn’t look at smooth while doing it.

是，可是詹姆斯在内线的出手次数更多，而且终结的效率比KD高啊。他们有各自的长处，可我觉得有一点说的很对，詹姆斯的得分确实和阿杜一样厉害，大家之所以不把他看做是和阿杜一样伟大的得分手，说实话，就是因为他得分的方式没那么流畅。

[–]Lakers caughtinthought 19 points 11 hours ago

I agree, I think the aesthetics are a big component of why people think this

湖人球迷：同意，我觉得大家在评判这一点的时候还重点考虑了美学因素。

[–]Celtics CarmeloCurryTowns 39 points 12 hours ago

KD is and has always been a better jumpshooter. It's also a massive portion of his game while the biggest portion of Lebron's game is at the rim.

凯尔特人球迷：杜兰特的跳投一直都更厉害，这也是他的主要得分方式，而詹姆斯的主要得分方式是冲击篮下。

[–]supremeddit 89 points 13 hours ago

The most ironic part is LBJ never wanted to be a scorer or considered to be a scorer

最讽刺的是，詹姆斯从未想成为得分手，也没被大家看作是得分手。

[–][LAL] Lonzo Ball Devoidoxatom 21 points 12 hours ago

For real, he's never known as a scorer

湖人球迷：真的，他从来都不是以得分手的身份闻名的。

[–]Miceland 134 points 13 hours ago

the thing about the "next lebron" guys is that they're always already far behind lebron at the same age

Simmons has never been on a LeBron trajectory

Giannis could become a top 10 player ever himself, but it will be by adding defensive anchor defense to his poor man's lebron game

he's not going to develop LeBron's offense, because offensively, Lebron was already ahead of where Giannis is now by year 2, at 20. Then LeBron developed his shooting and passing well beyond that

你们说的那些“下一个詹姆斯”的球员，他们和同年龄段的詹姆斯已经差得很远了。

西蒙斯压根就不是詹姆斯那个路数。

字母哥或许能够成为前十球员，可是还得加上他在防守端的大闸作用，毕竟他是穷人版的詹姆斯。

他的进攻能力到不了詹姆斯那个境界，因为20岁的詹姆斯在进攻方面就强于现在的字母哥了。之后詹姆斯还提升了他的投射和传球能力。

[–]Mavericks JoshiePatootie 56 points 13 hours ago

luka pls

独行侠球迷：东契奇争点气啊

[–]Warriors DeadZombie9 46 points 12 hours ago

30 is really hard seeing as even KD and Bron barely hit 30 ppg. Luka is going to be great though, regardless of whether he scores 30ppg by 21 or not.

勇士球迷：30分的均分真的很难，就连阿杜和老詹均分突破30的赛季也很少。不过不管东契奇到了21岁是否能均分破30，他都会很厉害的。

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[–]Timberwolves PFhelpmePlan 9 points 12 hours ago

What's interesting too is that Lebron again averaged 30 ppg during his age 23 season, but has not hit 30 ppg since. KD hit 30 again in his age 25 season but not since.

森林狼球迷：有意思的是，詹姆斯23岁的那个赛季又一次均分30，可是自那之后就没有了。杜兰特25岁时候又一次均分30 ，自那之后也没有了。

[–]76ers iohannespaulus 20 points 11 hours ago

I think because they realize scoring all the points ain’t it, you need to be just as good defensively and rebound and assist. So basically you need to be the entire team.

76人球迷：我觉得是因为他们意识到得分不能解决所有问题吧，你还得把防守、篮板和助攻抓好。所以，基本上你啥都要干。

[–]76ers AlwaysGetsBan 784 points 13 hours ago

Ha losers.

When I was 21 I was smoking weed and getting drunk almost daily and waking up at 2pm.

76人球迷：他们太“卢瑟”了。

我21岁的时候，还在嗑药呢，基本日日买醉，每天睡到下午两点。

[–]vine_was_overrated 33 points 10 hours ago

Currently 21, currently living the dream like you described. Any advice?

我现在就21岁，就活在你所描述的这个梦里。有啥建议吗？

[–]Cavaliers sock-nose 71 points 9 hours ago

Have your fun and all that, but recognize that you can't totally slack off and that it's really easy to wake up at 26 and realize you have no direction in your life because you spent years getting high and sleeping in. Enjoy living this life while you can, don't enjoy it too much.

骑士球迷：享受当下吧，不过要知道你不能完全懈怠，到了26岁你就醒悟了，明白你没有人生方向，因为这么些年你都是醉生梦死过来的。趁你还能浪的时候好好浪，但是要适度。

[–]succ_my_dicc 30 points 9 hours ago

That’s exactly what happened to me. Got fucked up and partied with hoes every day and at 25 I started to become very concerned about my future and the lack of direction in my life. Now at 28 I’m about to graduate with a bachelors degree. If I could go back in time I would’ve gotten serious about my life earlier but at the same time I still feel like my whole life is ahead of me.

我就是这么过来的。每天在温柔乡里寻欢作乐，到了25岁，我就开始很担心我的未来了，我的人生缺乏方向。现在我28岁了，马上要本科毕业了。要是能重来，我会早点严肃对待生活。不过，我仍然觉得我的人生还早着呢。

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来源：Reddit

编译：云长刮个痧